Dive into the world of Hollywood glamour and creative genius in this episode of The Joy of Belonging. Join Mary Ann Villarreal and Camille Friend, the Academy Award-nominated and NAACP Image Award-winning hair designer, whose illustrious career spans over two decades in the entertainment industry. From her iconic work on blockbusters like “Black Panther” to her transformative role as founder of Hair Scholars, Camille shares her journey from a salon in Tempe, Arizona, to shaping the hairstyles of A-list stars and breaking new ground in the world of cinematic representation. Discover the politics and cultural significance of hair, the unique challenges of hairstyling in CGI-laden productions like “The Little Mermaid,” and the joy Camille finds in fostering a sense of belonging through her cinematic artistry.

Subscribe to or follow The Joy of Belonging podcast on Spotify, YouTube, or YouTube Music.

Transcript

---

00:00 – 01:41 | Mary Ann Villarreal

Welcome back to The Joy of Belonging. And today it’s my privilege to introduce our guest, Camille Friend, an Academy Award nominated and NAACP image award-winning hair designer and artist, with more than 20 years of experience in the entertainment industry. Camille’s film credits include “The Little Mermaid,” “Black Panther,” “Tenet,” “Charlie’s Angels,” “Captain America: Civil War,” “The Hunger Games Mockingjay” parts one and two, “Django Unchained,” and “Guardians of the Galaxy” Volume Two, just to name a few. Camille has been recognized by the Academy of Television Arts and Sciences with an Oscar nomination for her outstanding work in the blockbuster film, “Black Panther: Wakanda Forever,” which was sold out by … Bought by the theater, right? Community groups around just bought the whole theater for “Wakanda Forever.” Camille’s talents have been showcased throughout Hollywood, making her highly sought after by producers, directors, and actors. And she’s also the founder of Hair Scholars, a platform dedicated to providing up and coming artists with mentorship, guidance, and vital skills for success in the film and TV industry. And through this venture, she generously shares her experience with new and experienced professional stylists, barbers, and makeup, promoting confidence, commitment and integrity in the industry. Welcome, Camille.

01:42 – 01:45 | Camille Friend

Thank you, guys. Thank you for having me, I appreciate you guys.

01:46 | Mary Ann Villarreal

Well, as I read your bio, which is not only remarkable and the title, “Joy of Belonging,” it just brought me joy to think about all the things that you have done and continue to do. And you talked about being from Tempe, Arizona, and I wonder if we might start there. You grew up in a salon family, you started your professional career at 17, you moved to L.A. You studied at Vidal Sassoon and John Atkinson Salon. You moved to Sebastian International. You’ve worked in an A-list crowd, and you continue to give back to community to bring many with you. And coming at full circle now with the Hair Scholars. But can we start a little bit about your background.

02:37 – 02:38 | Camille Friend

Of course.

02:39 – 02:46 | Mary Ann Villarreal

And starting in Tempe, Arizona, and what drew you to where you are now?

02:47 – 03:36 | Camile Friend

Well, I’m gonna say this, I am a small-town girl. I grew up in Tempe, Arizona. I didn’t think about or dream about a film career. Some people just think about it, they dream about it, they plan. I had no plan, literally. I fell into it, and the only thing I can say is ultimately it’s always been … It’s God’s plan that I follow. So ultimately, that’s the biggest plan that we have out there. So coming from Tempe and having … I’m a third-generation hairstylist, like my family always says, “Camie has taken the family trade to the next level.” I’m like, “thanks guys.”

03:27 – 03:30 | Mary Ann Villarreal

Right, and do you still have family in Tempe who have-

03:31 – 04:08 | Camille Friend

Oh, I do. Oh, yes, I do, I have a lot. I have a big family, so, I still have a lot of family and now when I go back, not only my first cousins, they have children. And it’s funny, one of my first cousins, one of their children, I had never met her and she just hit me up on Instagram and she’s like, “Hey, I think you’re my cousin.” And I said, “I am your cousin.” But because they haven’t had the experience to be around me in that sense. So I thought that was so cute. And that just shows you the impact of social media, even on your own family.

04:09 – 04:12 | Mary Ann Villarreal

Right, and they said, “I gotta know my cousin.”

04:13 – 04:15 | Camille Friend

Exactly.

04:16 – 04:17 | Mary Ann Villarreal

Do you get to go home often or are you-

04:18 – 05:00 | Camille Friend

I do, I get to go home pretty often. And my family, my birthday was in June. I had family all in my house. My family came from two weeks, we’re very clannish. And we’re close. And I’ve been really fortunate to have my family travel with me to different locations, and especially my nephews. My nephews, they’re now in their 20s and getting married. But when they were younger, they have really benefited from this career of mine, ’cause they have been all around the world. And now they love hotels and pools. That’s what the kids like. They don’t care about the locations, they just like, “Auntie, does the hotel have a pool?” I’m like, “Yeah, it has a pool.”

05:01 – 05:02 | Mary Ann Villarreal

And is it heated?

05:03 – 05:04 | Camille Friend

Exactly, exactly.

05:05 – 05:56 | Mary Ann Villarreal

Well, you have been leads hairstylist on dozens of movies. Those that I named, but also from “Pirates of the Caribbean” to “Dreamgirls.” And, but this last movie with “The Little Mermaid,” I know that you’ve been in countless interviews, but watching on social media, you’ve mentioned social media, watching young children, including my own children, fall in Love with seeing her on that big screen. But how was that for you? I know that CGI and Marvel movies had already created that environment for you, but what was that experience like in that recreation of “The Little Mermaid?”

05:57 – 08:14 | Camille Friend

It’s really funny because, as we speak, I just got the email from Disney about getting together everything for the academy, we’re about to step into award season. So for me, that’s a lot of paperwork. So it’s funny, I’m just like revisiting “Little Mermaid” and and how I felt. And going into, because we started “Little Mermaid” before pandemic. So it’s been a lot of time that passed. But initially, I just wanna say is I got a great call from Disney and they were just really interested to see what I could do. What could we do to transform this character? And then I went and I met with Halle and I met with her family. And after that, that really solidified that I really wanted to do it, because talking to them and knowing how important it was to keep her hair natural and who they were as a family and her as a Black woman, I was like, “Okay, give me the job, I stand for that. ” So for me, part of what I do best is going into projects and finding people where they’re at and helping them develop their characters. Because without characters, that’s what great movies are made from. They’re made from characters. So the hair is very much a quintessential part of what … Especially the Little Mermaid, her hair was. So just looking at all those components of what’s the hair going to look like? What’s the color gonna look like? All of those things that happened as we’re starting to design the looks. So that’s how I started with “Little Mermaid.” And then also, really working with the visual effects. I mean, and Marvel, I have to say, Marvel led me to all … One movie leads you to another and the technology. So learning from working with Marvel and working with visual effects, we work really closely with them. So, it was something, again, working really close with visual effects, knowing the shots, where the shots in the sense of where it was gonna be live action, where it was gonna go in and out of CGI, and when we were coming back into live action, and making sure all of that synced up and worked together. So that’s basically what was my job. And just making sure that her look was solidified. And now it’s gone down in history, and we’re getting ready to go into our award season, so we’ll see.

08:15 – 09:08 | Mary Ann Villarreal

So you’ve taken, I mean, not just the industry of hairstylist, as your parents have said, or your family said, you’ve taken it to another level, but you’ve taken the artistry of it to another level with “Little Mermaid,” and everything that you just described. Again, I’m gonna bring this back into this, the joy of belonging, what is it? I mean, how do you see that joy being brought back into characters when you can honor who they are? When you can honor … When you talk about meeting with their families, honoring what matters to them. Can you describe that level of bringing that joy of belonging in that space at that time and what that means? And what does that mean for the industry that you can take them there?

09:09 – 10:52 | Camille Friend

I think it means a lot. I think this is what I think we always have to remember for our people of color, our actors who sit in the chair that are of color. They have as just much right to have somebody there who knows how to work with their skin tones, their hair textures. And the best compliment for me is, I remember on the first “Black Panther,” Daniel Kaluuya came into the trailer and he was like, “I’ve never been in a trailer where people are giving me this much attention. They’re giving me this much detail. And then I get to hear Biggie Smalls in the background.” Because culturally, that’s something for us. And then also, on “Black Panther: Wakanda Forever,” our whole Latin culture. I made sure that we had people to know how to do Latin hair. We had Latin hairstylists, people who they can identify, people who can speak Spanish, people who can facilitate. So it doesn’t matter … If I take a job, my job is not only to design the looks, but it is to properly staff the people who are in the trailer to identify with the actors who are sitting in the chair. So again, that brings me back to Halle, knowing that her need was she wanted to be natural, but then how do I, because I’m the middleman, ’cause you have the studio over here, you have the actor over here, so how do you, in the middle, that’s my job to figure out how do I give the studio what they need and also give the actor what they need? Because if the actor doesn’t have what they need, the performance is lacking. So you have to be able to work in both sides and both worlds. And that’s one thing that I get to do and I do well. That’s why I get the phone calls, yeah,

10:53 – 11:05 | Mary Ann Villarreal

I was gonna say, and that’s why they keep coming back to you, because not just giving the studio what they need, but ensuring that actors are … They’re human, right? That they are getting-

11:06 – 11:28 | Camille Friend

Yeah, and they wanna be well taken care of. They’re people and they have things just like us. They have children, they have parents who are aging. They have a lot going on in their life. And when they sit in the chair in the morning, the last thing that they need to be worried about is how my hair’s gonna look, how my makeup is going on. Those are things that people don’t need to be thinking about.

11:29 – 11:46 | Mary Ann Villarreal

Right, hair is such an important … I’m gonna talk about the Crown Act, but I what you are raising is that, I think for many of us from our family’s hair, where the appearance of your hair, how are you taking care of you is all in your hair, right?

11:47 – 11:48 | Camille Friend

Right.

11:49 – 12:41 | Mary Ann Villarreal

So in the last 10 or 20 years, the politicization of hair, that hair is understood to this point that it’s not about just how … The superficial of how I look, but the hair of who I know, right? And that the Crown Act is intended to preserve and protect the political significance for the cultural understanding of particularly Brown, Black folk hair in this space. And I’d say even for some religious cultural affiliations around hair, that protection. Can you talk a bit about the political significance of hair and how you’ve seen that both personally and growing up in the spaces that you did, but now in the industry?

12:42 – 14:29 | Camille Friend

I think one thing I was really fortunate this year to dub at the Essence Fest, dub gave me the Legend Award. So I was part of the Crown Act and the Crown movement. And the important thing about the movement is it’s the freedom of expression. It’s the freedom to say, “No matter how I wear my hair, I can be accepted.” You don’t feel like … People shouldn’t feel like they have to … They shouldn’t have to cut their hair, they shouldn’t have to change their hair or alter their hair. Their hair should be as it naturally grows out of their scalp. And everybody should have that right, no matter if it’s under the pretext of skin color or even if it’s a religious preference. Everybody should have that and have that protections. We do live in the U.S. of A, and it’s the melting pot. And one thing that I love about what I do is culturally, I get to step into these movies and I get to explore all the cultures, different cultures. I get to look at different things. And part of the exploration, for me, is what’s so exciting and so much fun, because not only if you understand it, then you can … That’s the way that I can play with it. I can manipulate it, I can take it a little this way or take it a little that way, for artistic license, as I’ll call it. But always, again, respecting the culture, respecting what it is. One of my biggest compliments is on “Black Panther: Wakanda Forever.” When Latin young ladies come up to me and they’re crying, or people are just looking me in the eye and telling me, “Thank you so much for what you did in representing the culture.” That’s what it’s all about. That’s the greatest thank you that you could have is you’re getting a kiss from a culture, yeah.

14:30 – 14:45 | Mary Ann Villarreal

That is beautiful, and I wanna pause again and say thank you because I do, I see it in my own children who see themselves, and their friends who, that’s not always what we had, right? It’s those-

14:46 – 15:23 | Camille Friend

No, it isn’t. It isn’t always what we had. I was just at a friend’s house this weekend, and her daughter, she’s a mixed young lady, and she was like, “I really hate when people just come up and they think they can touch my hair.” She goes, “I really don’t like that.” And she’s 15 years old. And I says, “You have a right to say that you don’t like that.” Because it’s not … Because we’re not on display. This is our hair, this is our crown. It’s the energy that it holds. And nobody has a right to do that. And asking permission to be in somebody’s personal space is really, really important, too.

15:24 – 16:01 | Mary Ann Villarreal

Do you see the representation in this particular case around Black hairstyles has the level of importance, has that changed? Is there a greater understanding of that? I know certainly Disney has because they have you. But is that specific to people who have your talent and have your vision? Or are you seeing across the board that people are understanding the importance of what you just named, of that energy of our hair, particularly in Hollywood?

16:02 – 17:18 | Camille Friend

I’m gonna say I think it’s twofold. I think people have more of awareness, but is the change? We still need a lot of change. We’re still not there. We’re not out of the woods. So it’s a thing of how do we change? And I always say the change comes with education. So if you are … If Hollywood is really going to speak, are they gonna really change? Are they really going to … We do have, don’t get me wrong, we have more Black and Latin hairstylists in our unions than ever. But it’s like the change comes from the inside, and sometimes change is slow. I wish that was happening faster, but we still have … I just … Somebody just sent me, there’s a documentary coming out from the U.K. on all these Black actresses who talk about their hair experience. There’s a whole documentary on it. So we still have a long way to go. Leslie Jones was just on Sherry talking about her hair experiences. So we still have a long way to go, and educating people on not only about hair color and skin tones and all those other things, but how to treat people who were sitting in your chair who don’t look like you.

17:19 – 17:45 | Mary Ann Villarreal

And how does Hair Salon, I mean, this is an organization now that you are bringing young talent, you’re … When we talked about the confidence and commitment. So how is Hair Salon integrating that level, not just of importance, but into the everyday, recognizing that these are the young people or rising people who are going to be leading that change that you’ve set the tone for?

17:46 – 18:52 | Camille Friend

Well, I mean, one thing great about Hair Scholars is it started as, it just was something that I was kind of doing everywhere I went, I would teach people this and that and all the different things. So Hair Scholars was born under, again, a need. And so going into it, my whole theory was I wanna be able to help people and mentor people to get into this business. Because if you’re looking from the outside, if you’re a kid from Tempe, Arizona, if you’re a kid from Utah, man, Hollywood looks like it’s a long way away. And it seems like it’s very, very hard. But I always look at how can I make this simple? How can I break this down? And that’s what I’ve done through Hair Scholars. We teach everything from practical, I call it practical, how to put on a wig. But then we have business classes like how to get into the union, how to be a department head. And that’s where we’re serving in creating equity. So the equity is important and the titles are important. And for us to earn them and have them in this business is very important.

18:53 – 18:56 | Mary Ann Villarreal

The teaching the business is so key, and I’m gonna-

18:57 – 18:57 | Camille Friend

The business of the business.

18:58 – 19:49 | Mary Ann Villarreal

Yes, and what we call the business of being you. And that is part of this work. It’s not just about the beauty part, it’s not just hair. It is about developing young people into their whole being, right? That it is not … The idea that something is so far away, and when we talk about joy, that it feels like you’re drawing lines of joy, right? You’re connecting people into … Rather than where you fell into it, you’re drawing the path to joy for them so that they can be involved in all that you love. Can you talk about the young people that you work with and that experience and with Hair Scholars?

19:50 – 21:45 | Camille Friend

Being, working with Hair Scholars has been, honestly, teaching is my greatest joy now. Teaching makes me so happy. I come home and I can’t sleep after I teach because I’m so … It’s euphoria, it’s the energy and joy. Joy has a great vibration. So you … I always want vibrate at the highest levels. So joy and all those sort of things. So bringing the joy into it in teaching, it’s so simple. And so many people, and I’m really blessed to be a good teacher and people like hearing me talk. And then also helping people just along the way, like how to navigate your deal. Showing people how to get paid. Not only how to put on a wig, but how to get paid. How to navigate tough negotiations, ’cause sometimes things get sticky. Things get sticky with me sometimes. But having somebody who’s been there, who’s done that. I’ve done it, I’ve seen it, I know what it is. And I always tell people, why don’t you just call me? Like I say, ’cause I’m here to help. I met a young lady at Essence Fest and she was telling me she was going out the country with this actress, and I said, “What’s your deal look like?” She goes, “Oh, it’s just easy.” And I said, “Oh, I wouldn’t, it’s just not easy.” I said, “Do you know that your union has no coverage when you get to Europe?” She was like, “What?” I said, “Yeah.” I said, “Let’s talk about those things.” So actually, I gave her my email, she sent me her deal and I redlined it, ’cause all of it was was bad. And she was like, “Camille, I had no idea.” I says, “Well, that’s why I’m telling you, because I’ve been to Europe and been screwed. So I wanna prevent you from having that experience.” That’s why I’m here. And I love, the young people use that word gatekeeping. The gatekeeping needs to stop.

21:46 – 21:47 | Mary Ann Villarreal

Thank you.

21:48 – 22:50 | Camille Friend

Just because you’re not born into this industry or you don’t have parents who are working in this industry, which a lot of people of color, we don’t have those opportunities. All the gatekeeping needs to stop. And the gatekeeping, especially with me, it stops. I don’t wanna gate keep. I want people to know that this business is open for business. And if you apply yourself, yeah, it’s tough to get in, but once you’re in, the beauty of being in the business, it’s, I’ve been in the business 27 years, there’s great things that you can have. There’s healthcare, there’s dental, there’s great opportunities for your children. There’s just many, many great opportunities that you can experience working in this business, not only working with great actors and the traveling, but there’s a lot of benefits outside of it. You’re just in a community. ‘Cause no matter what, I always say, movie making is about two things for me. Movie making is about what happens on that screen, and it’s the people that you interact with every day. Those are the people that I love, yeah.

22:51 – 23:29 | Mary Ann Villarreal

Well, speaking of people that we love, I don’t know if you’re aware, we have a nonprofit here in Utah called Curly Me! It’s run by Alyssha Dairsow. And it just … So as I’m thinking about the … they introduce young … It’s primarily young Black girls around the community, it helps build community understanding and joy around hair and it brings them together to teach them they’re not alone. So how do … If a young person is interested in your Hair Scholars, is there an application process? Do they … Is there a way to-

23:30 – 25:08 | Camille Friend

You can go to hairscholars.com. You could hit us up at hairscholars.com. We’re also on Instagram. I actually answer my own Instagrams. So actually, I get a lot of DMs and I answer people’s DMs. Really, really simply. And really it’s about deciding, first of all, do … I’ll just keep it really, really simple. The first thing you have to decide, do you wanna be a makeup artist or do you wanna be a hairstylist? Because those are two different paths. What kind of schooling are you gonna get to, to be one or the other? Because in the union, you can’t do both. You can’t do hair and you can’t do makeup. You have to do either or. So that’s the first decision. And I always tell people, I hate to say it, I’m always … You could do makeup, but I always say this, there’s always looking for good hairdressers. We work all the time. So I always tell people, I always say, “Lean into the hair, lean into the hair.” But you have to do what you’re passionate about. So that’s the first step. And then just getting people, I always say, “Once you get outta beauty school,” I always say this, “Go to a salon, go to a great salon, work in the salon, get all the kinks worked out,” because this is the difference. When you come into the business, it’s almost, I’m just gonna say, like right now, we’re in … I went to the Charger game this weekend, the NFL. It’s like being a superstar. You’re getting called up, you’re in the NFL. So you’re there with the best, you’re there with the elite. So that is not the place for you to be figuring out how to cut hair. When you come into our business, you should already know certain things because the level is up here.

25:09 – 25:40 | Mary Ann Villarreal

Wow, that is great advice. And I wanna say to other listeners, she answered our DM, so yes, she does it on her own. Thank you. So before … I’m gonna wrap up with one last question, right? This is the “Joy of Belonging” podcast. And so, if you’ll wrap us up with the question on what is it that you most look forward to in your work ahead and making that movie magic that you know millions will watch?

25:41 – 27:11 | Camille Friend

Honestly, for me, it’s, I’ve been doing it for a long time and I’m looking at other things in my life to do. I love teaching. Teaching is something I really love to do, and I would like to do it more full time. And also producing movies. I have some passion projects that I’m working with, with people. So those are things that, as I continue, it’s the evolution. And two, really finding out what that joy is. Waking up and what ignites your heart, what opens your heart, what makes your heart sing? That’s still important to me. And that’s something still … I’m working those things out as we go every day. And two, I’ll tell you one of my … I’ll tell you my biggest secrets, it’s not really a secret, people know me, I’m a big meditator. So I think having, I don’t … And I’ll just say this, I don’t care who you pray to, but having a spiritual base and meditation and quieting your mind, it really, really helps you in this career. Because it’s not an easy career. There’s long days. You’re away from your family for months and months and months at a time. And there’s a lot of things that you’re gonna do. You could be hot, you could be cold, it could be … You could have a producer yelling at you in your face. But if you start in the morning and you connect to God or spirit or whatever you connect to, and you’re talking to your angels and your gods and calling in all of those beautiful energies, that joy will help you get through the day.

27:12 – 27:17 | Mary Ann Villarreal

Well, Camille, there’s a whole other podcast on meditation that I’d love to have with you there.

27:18 – 27:19 | Camille Friend

We’ll talk about that.

27:20 – 27:33 | Mary Ann Villarreal

Trying to teach my 15-year-old the joy of be, do, have. You can’t … Well, you just gotta be where you are, right where you are at this moment. And thank you. I look forward to seeing what you produce next. There will be more movie magic from you.

27:34 – 27:55 | Camile Friend

There will be, there’s movie magic coming. In fact, it’s funny because I’m probably, well after … We’re still in strike mode, but once we come out of strike, I’ll decide what movie I’m gonna do and we’ll go do. I think I have a cool movie I’m gonna go do. And just working out all those little things and exploring all the other things that I wanna do in my life.

27:56 | Mary Ann Villarreal

With the deepest gratitude-

27:57 – 27:58 | Camille Friend

Oh, thank you.

27:59 – 28:12 | Mary Ann Villarreal

From all of us, thank you for your time. Thank you for sharing the beauty and joy of life and reminding us that part of the stopping, of meditating and being where we are makes us better at what we do. So thank you, again.

28:13 – 28:14 | Camille Friend

Definitely.

28:15 – 28:16 | Mary Ann Villarreal

It’s been a joy.

28:17 – 28:19 | Camille Friend

Thank you, guys, thank you.